Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Couldn't you have just found a better hiding place?:bear_angry:

http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/sto...400.xml&coll=2

Alabama lawmen recover World War II weapons in Bibb County creek
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
CAROL ROBINSON
News staff writer

A small cache of Japanese, Italian and German World War II-era weapons found dumped in a Bibb County creek is baffling to even the most veteran lawmen.

The firepower, discovered by a state road crew conducting a bridge inspection just north of Centreville late last week, is illegal to own, still in working condition and probably worth in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, said David Hyche, resident agent in charge at the Birmingham office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"I've never encountered anything like it in my 21 years," Hyche said. "It's amazing to us what was recovered there. These are things you see in the movies on a Saturday afternoon."

Amazing, and potentially dangerous, he said.

"It's a significant arsenal if it got into the wrong hands," Hyche said.

Bibb County Sheriff Keith Hannah said state road workers called his office on Thursday after spotting the weapons.

Hannah sent a sheriff's dive team into the water, where they found four Japanese machine guns, a Japanese anti-tank cannon, an Italian machine gun, a Japanese 50 mm mortar and a Thompson submachine gun, also known as the Tommy Gun, a popular Prohibition-era weapon.

Authorities recovered two other weapons, but are withholding a description to help in the investigation, should someone with information call.

The weapons were found in water that ranged from four to 12 feet deep and Hannah said they had been there probably less than 24 hours.

"No silt had washed over them and they had not even started rusting," the sheriff said. {waaaaahh!:bawling:}

The weapons were field tested and the majority are in working condition and could be fired with modern ammunition.

"Can you imagine if these had gotten into the wrong hands?" Hyche said.

Hyche said it wasn't difficult after World War II to bring weapons back as souvenirs, and there was a period where they could have been legally registered.

The guns found in Bibb County were not legally imported or registered, Hyche said.

Authorities can only speculate for now how the guns ended up in a creek. They may have been taken in a burglary, a robbery or simply been found by a family member of a veteran who didn't know what to do with them, Hannah and Hyche said.

"Obviously, we want to find out if there's more," Hyche said.

Investigators believe whoever had these weapons bragged to someone else. "The chances of having these in your house and not showing them off is slim," Hyche said.

They want to talk with anyone who may have been associated with the weapons. They also are trying to locate a museum interested in displaying them.

"We don't want to destroy pieces of history," Hyche said. {suuuure, you don't Mr. BATF man:sarc:}

Anyone with information on the weapons is asked to call ATF at 205-583-5970 or the Bibb County Sheriff's Office at 205-926-4683.

E-mail: crobinson@bhamnews.com

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Another boating accident, damn...

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Some old Vetern (sp) from WWII probebly recently died and or was about to check out and showed his kids what he had stashed for them if they needed it in the future.

E-A

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Man, those things had to be valuable. I would have treasured those instead of dumping them in water.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Sounds like they have.

That statement is laughable to anyone with any knowledge surrounding the NFA and GCA.

How would he know that?!

I speculate that the owner let his mouth run to the wrong person, maybe even his/her spouse, and suddenly the guns were more of a liability than they were worth.

Completely asinine statement there at the end although the first part is possibly spot on.

I'm sure they do! If someone had wanted to talk they wouldn't have dumped the things in a river.

Just the lives of anyone who would dare hold the pieces of history themselves by right of the 2nd Amendment with no purview for taxation enacted to fill the void left by equally heinous prohibition.

Anyone who wants to snitch and ruin a life can do so without fear of reprisal because we've got the perp's big, bad guns now.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

When are we going to repeal the NFA and 1986 Firearm Protection Act. They are both unconstitutional and the BATFE is acting in treasonous ways against the people.

The only reason the NFA is law is because Miller never showed up for the trial. The lower courts ruled the NFA unconstitutional and when the SC got involved Miller never showed up. The Damn bootlegger was never seen again.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Understatement of the century...

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Wonder what the divers might have found on a second trip down at 3am in the dark of night without being watched ?
Or do we wonder if the sheriff played the one for you two for me , one for you two for me game .

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Boy did you ever nail it.........

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Now that's a nice collection.........:s9:......but I'm sad of the loss. :bear_cry:

Someone could make a lot of $$$ off those at a TX Gun Show ! :bear_w00t:

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Sadly as the WWII generation dies off this is going to become more and more common.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I'm hearing about more and more of it. I think the Vietnam Vets were the last generation to bring back automatic weapons. Even some of them are starting to kick the bucket now. I think the government is going to have to do something for those who "inherit" (find) historic automatic weapons when cleaning out the homes of their deceased loved ones.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

If someone brought something back ,,it was smuggled back.
At every point of departure there would be drums with a sign telling you to put weapons and any other contrban you may have.
WW2 yes, Korea not sure.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

It happens today as well from Iraq and Afghanistan. When you fly milair in and out you throw your items on a big pallet and they wrap it and load it on the plane, c-17 c-5, etc. Nothing is checked. Base to base, no airports. Throw souvenirs on, bada bing bada boom.

Or so Ive heard...:bath:

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

......................

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I'm thinking that someone bragged about their personal collection, got paniced due to the current political climate and dumped them, or some anti-gun nut inherited them and dumped them.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I think there actually WAS a brief (~1 year long) "amnesty" period in the 1960s where NFA items could be registered without the regular $200 tax. There have been some efforts recently to have a new amnesty period.

It's a shame that the weapons dumped in the creek weren't registered, since they could then be legally transferred for mucho $$$. Of course, it was a roll of the dice back then as to whether our benevolent govt would confiscate any amnesty registered items. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Probably some woman found out her husband was screwing the baby sitter, and dumped his treasures-- the ones that he could not report missing.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I had a friend whos grandfather died five years ago and under his bed they found two active pineapple grenades in mint condition in a cigar box with his dog tags.
They called the Rock Island Arsenal to come and pick up the grenades. They were scared of them except my friend of course! He wanted to go out to the Wapsi river far from anybody and pull the pin to see what it was like and basically fish illegally.
They came and picked those up with no hassle to the family. No police report or anything. Didnt even call the local police. Just said thanks for calling the proper authorities for getting these degrading explosives out of the public hands.
he lived with them for 8 years before he died and had no idea these grenades were 15 ft away from the next bedroom.
He had a lot of guns that went for sale too. None of which were of any fire worthy shape after they kept the good stuff. I had the chance to see what they kept and in there was an M1 Garand (beleived to be his during the war), 22/410 overunder and some German rifle that I cant remember what it was.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Why in the world did the Police need to "test fire" the guns? What a crock of shit.



"Hey we just recovered a bunch of WW2 full-auto's, lets shoot the piss out of em before we have to put em in the evidence locker"

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I didn't argue that there was no amnesty period. Try talking to some folks who had NFA firearms during the amnesty period.

A) They saw no reason to register their firearms to a government that had no power to require it and was suddenly trying to do so.
B) They figured the amnesty was likely a ruse to be followed up with confiscation.
C) $200 tax ain't cheap today but it was a fortune then, especially when applied to a firearm that could easily cost less than $15. Don't forget the tax is applied to each transfer as well.

All one has to do is look at the numbers to realize precious few people registered these weapons. This is for NFA and GCA.

The article statement is laughable in that it subtly implies that these non-registered weapons were somehow even remotely in the minority. Also, I got the feeling from it that the registration issue wasn't the abomination that it is and was.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Think back to 1934 (or whenever it was)...$200 was BIG BUCKS. It's a bit of a surprise that the transfer tax hasn't been cracked up to $4000 or so "for the children."

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Hush your mouth. :)

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Because there is something called the "National Firearms Act Registry" that has all registered class 3 firearms listed in it by make, model, serial number and owner, (form 3 or 4)....This was created in 1934.

These weapons COULD have been registered in 1968 during the brief amnesty, but the owner(s) at that time apprently did not feel the need to do so....

The BATFE can easily check any Class 3 weapon by serial number against their registry and it will give them all pertinent info on the weapon...That is if it is properly registered.

Class 3 Japanese T96 MG's are not even comparable to a T99 Arisaka bolt action....ALL Japanese MG's are accounted for and have been since 1968...Any not registered are CONTRABAND and will immediately net you a Federal Felony...This has been true since 1934 and then since a brief period in 1968.

Bolt action T99/T38/T30/T44 Japanese Arisakas were brought home by the boatload and are treated like any other standard rifle, (because they are)...

These weapons found in this article are in a totally different class, (Class 3 and DD- Destructive Device) and are unregistered contraband.

Trust me....I collected Japanese Arisakas for years and when I sold my collection ten years ago, it was one of the finest in the country.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

ASSuming that the Registry is correct, which may be a dangerous assumption. That's why I carry copies of my NFA item Form 4's in ziploc bags inside my range bag, just in case....

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Smart move....I would too...

The point is that most posters in this thread do not understand what a Class 3 weapon is or what the 1968 Amnesty consisted of or that these weapons CANNOT be registered now under any circumstances by John Q. Citizen...

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Thanks for the info?
Reread my comment and note the portion of the quote I bolded.
The firearms could have been legally imported prior to requiring registration. It is obvious that they were never "properly" registered or else they would not have ended up in a river nor would the police be wondering who they belonged to.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

This story doesn't square up.

They were in the water 24 hours and "just happened" to be discovered by a random bridge inspection.

Completely BS.

Things that fall into a river don't get accidently discovered the next day.

Not sure what the truth is or what the real story is, but they were not discovered accidently.

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

These weapons could NOT have been "legally imported" before registration was required because as the article stated, these were "WW2 weapons"...As you know, WW2 was from 1941-45 and the NFA was passed in 1934 with only ONE amnesty in 1968, (which was noted in the original article.)

The only was they could have been imported was as a "dealer sample" from Class 3 to Class 3 dealer only....Even then, they would still be in the registry.

There was never really an open registration period for class 3 weapons except for 1968....Before that, these contraband war trophies were DEWAT'ed, ("stands for DEactivated WAr Trophy"), or simply hidden because the owners did not know about the 68 amnesty or could not pay the $200 tax at the time...

By the way, DEWATS could be registered under a complicated system on a "Form 1" and then a "Form 5" after 1954...The original method was to simply weld the breech shut, but that is no longer acceptable to BATFE...Now they require a large hole drilled in the receiver....

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Touche, silly me.:553:

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Why do folks here even respond to Agfingers posts? He works for .gov... did anyone notice?

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Hardly man....I collected WW2 military surplus firearms for a decade and moderated a large forum that catered to collectors of certain varieties of these weapons...

Just because I refute and contradict your paranoid rantings that you post with loads of conjecture and with no proof does not make a person a government agent...It also doesn't make me a government agent to set the facts straight with uninformed speculative posters like in this thread when I clearly know better....

Your post proves my point about your irrational paranoia in one fell swoop...

Every tree does not have a boogeyman behind it...Also, just because someone looks for proof of conspiracy bullshit posted on the internet, doesn't make them "in on the conspiracy"....:bawling::bear_w00t:

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Sounds like a guy getting ready to go through a messy divorce where his wife knew about his illegal high dollar stash and is using it against him both $ and it being illegal.....

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

These are not really "high dollar" at all because they cannot be registered by an individual....They were good for parts only because you could never admit you owned them...As unregistered machine guns, they would immediately net you time in Club Fed....They cannot be sold, traded or admitted to in a shape, form or fashion....They are parts guns only...

If they had been correctly registered during the 1968 amnesty, they would probably fetch in the six figures (total), for all of them, because they would all be buyable DIRECTLY by someone with a C&R license after paying the $200 tax on a form 3...

As it stands, they are unregisterable and worse than useless....

That's probably why they are in the river....The heir of the original owner may have researched it and realized that they could not be legally owned by an individual thus making them good for only a prison term....

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Can't really blame them.

I'd have to test fire em' to. :biggrin:

ST

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Yes, I'm sure they were dreading having to do that. As everyone in the department lines up to "make sure" they work.

"Hey Bob, isn't this guns supposed to fire around 650 rounds per minute? It sounds more like 450"

"Hand it over Jim and I'll give it a try. We need to sort this problem out one and for all"

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I'm not going to respond to this doozy....I'll wait for TA to show up, this one's right up his alley...

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Well, acquire one and then get caught with it....Automatic 10 year Federal Felony for you...

I can guarantee you that BATFE will prosecute someone to the fullest extent possible... Possession of an unregistered machinegun is the crown jewel of the things they prosecute..They love those cases.

If you can handle that, then feel free to carry on and go claim them....:111:

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Why is it that I sense glee in your representation of the fact that the penalty for not paying a $200 tax is a 10 year felony?

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

Sheesh...No glee.....As a former FFL holder for years, I am fully aware of the ramifications of crossing BATFE...Don't do it.

As to the $200 tax...That's just the way it is....It's been that way since 1934. Nothing new there..

Re: Okay, TA....Why Did You Do It?
 

I'm afraid my knowledge of US police practice is limited to watching CSI Miami and similar enjoyable crap, but I imagine that they take a couple of bullets fired from every weapon that comes into their hands to see whether the gun is linked to any recorded crimes.